Environmentalists a foe to oil, energy industries

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Environmentalists a foe to oil, energy industries Tuesday, May 20, 2008
The Regina Leader-Post -- CALGARY -- With the oilsands now symbolizing deforestation, climate change and corporate greed, the Alberta energy industry is up against a growing network of green activists. In 1949, when the Athabasca oilsands were still a two-bit experiment, J. Howard Pew, chairman of Philadelphia-based Sun Oil Co., summoned to his office the new head of his Alberta operation. He picked up a thick file labelled Athabasca Tar Sands and showed it to George Dunlap. "I believe the tarsands will, some day, be of great significance to the needs for petroleum in North America," the patriarch said, according to reports at the time relayed by historian Earle Gray in his book, The Great Canadian Oil Patch."I want you to be sure that Sun Oil always has a significant position in the Athabasca tarsands area."
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	Tuesday, May 20, 2008 The Regina Leader-Post -- CALGARY -- With the oilsands now symbolizing deforestation, climate change and corporate greed, the Alberta energy industry is up against a growing network of green activists. In 1949, when the Athabasca oilsands were still a two-bit experiment, J. Howard Pew, chairman of Philadelphia-based Sun Oil Co., summoned to his office the new head of his Alberta operation. He picked up a thick file labelled Athabasca Tar Sands and showed it to George Dunlap. "I believe the tarsands will, some day, be of great significance to the needs for petroleum in North America," the patriarch said, according to reports at the time relayed by historian Earle Gray in his book, The Great Canadian Oil Patch."I want you to be sure that Sun Oil always has a significant position in the Athabasca tarsands area." Visit The Regina Leader-Post for full article

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Johnnyart Rookie Author California Posts:49 Points:53,160 Joined:Jan 2008	Message Posted: 5/28/2008 1:02:02 AM	Ignore Johnnyart Report Abuse
	I AGREE, THE ENVIORNMENTALISTS ARE A FOE TO THE OIL COMPANY'S, WHEN WILL THE GOVERNMENT STEP IN AND CHANGE FOR ONCE, FOR THE GOOD OF THE PEOPLE AND THE WOLRD?
Houckster Champion Author Atlanta Posts:4,370 Points:482,560 Joined:Sep 2003	Message Posted: 5/23/2008 8:17:08 AM	Ignore Houckster Report Abuse
	Cheap oil is responsible for most of the mess we face. One of the posters on this site, RADIM (a field geologist) has discussed how cheap oil from overseas ran much of our domestic production out of business. Now equipment and experienced personnel are in short supply here. Moreover, bringing new sources of supply online take years and years to do. The problems we face are not going to go away soon. We have three means of reducing the impact of high fuel prices in the relatively near future. They have been discussed already: 1) better fuel efficency; 2) conservation and; 3) biofuels. We haven't come close to maximizing the benefits of any of these measures. That's going to take an administration with foresight, political skill and guts. [Edited by: Houckster at 5/23/2008 11:17:38 AM EST]
letmathe Champion Author Chicago Posts:6,418 Points:1,593,745 Joined:May 2001	Message Posted: 5/21/2008 11:12:22 AM	Ignore letmathe Report Abuse
	It's not the environmentalists who caused us to reach PEAK OIL. Drilling will become increasingly expensive and intrusive (whatever 'treehuggers say').
ramshot412 Champion Author Riverside Posts:11,053 Points:1,109,825 Joined:Apr 2004	Message Posted: 5/21/2008 8:28:10 AM	Ignore ramshot412 Report Abuse
	"Tree-huggers did NOT get us into this mess!" Nope, but it's way too easy to blame them instead of admitting the real reasons.....Greed, Lifestyle, etc.
brogan56 Champion Author Colorado Springs Posts:9,019 Points:1,449,895 Joined:Mar 2004	Message Posted: 5/21/2008 8:20:46 AM	Ignore brogan56 Report Abuse
	coughcoughbull&%$&cough
acknot Veteran Author Seattle Posts:359 Points:537,785 Joined:Sep 2003	Message Posted: 5/21/2008 8:13:31 AM	Ignore acknot Report Abuse
	The wrath of the enviromentalist, always a roadblock to progress and increased costs in every project.
socalusra All-Star Author California Posts:669 Points:1,594,835 Joined:Aug 2003	Message Posted: 5/21/2008 8:11:26 AM	Ignore socalusra Report Abuse
	lets just drill
flyfast All-Star Author Kansas City Posts:612 Points:119,445 Joined:Jan 2008	Message Posted: 5/21/2008 8:07:29 AM	Ignore flyfast Report Abuse
	THE TREE-HUGGERS HELP drill drill
rjn5851 Champion Author Florida Posts:5,874 Points:1,269,360 Joined:Jun 2004	Message Posted: 5/21/2008 8:05:53 AM	Ignore rjn5851 Report Abuse
	somewhat...........
uksqueeze All-Star Author San Jose Posts:670 Points:710,335 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: 5/21/2008 8:04:25 AM	Ignore uksqueeze Report Abuse
	Tree-huggers did NOT get us into this mess!
EarlyMoose Champion Author Seattle Posts:1,359 Points:594,340 Joined:Dec 2005	Message Posted: 5/21/2008 8:03:36 AM	Ignore EarlyMoose Report Abuse
	Biofuels!
bentwrench Rookie Author Washington Posts:28 Points:15,550 Joined:Aug 2003	Message Posted: 5/21/2008 7:57:29 AM	Ignore bentwrench Report Abuse
	Enviros are the reason we pay $4 a gallon for gas and the same for a gallon of milk. Because of the lawsuits and laws created at their request it takes longer and costs more money to do any project. From building a shed in your back yard to building a freeway to producing gas. Their radical ways need to be stopped by our elected officials. But that is hard to do when the Enviros are so deep in their pockets controlling their every move.
Mooseman1 Champion Author Manitoba Posts:1,436 Points:198,665 Joined:Jul 2007	Message Posted: 5/21/2008 7:55:52 AM	Ignore Mooseman1 Report Abuse
	Making ethanol from garbage is our answer... Garbage to Ethanol Grabage to Ethanol 2 [Edited by: Mooseman1 at 5/21/2008 10:57:24 AM EST]
NavyEOD Champion Author Los Angeles Posts:1,366 Points:313,705 Joined:Jul 2007	Message Posted: 5/21/2008 7:53:19 AM	Ignore NavyEOD Report Abuse
	Alternative fuels is the answer.
Gerund1 All-Star Author Toronto Posts:686 Points:771,045 Joined:Apr 2003	Message Posted: 5/21/2008 7:51:45 AM	Ignore Gerund1 Report Abuse
	I am definitely not feeling very freiendly towards the oil industry. Greedy so and so's.
jjulson All-Star Author North Dakota Posts:678 Points:227,400 Joined:Mar 2007	Message Posted: 5/21/2008 7:46:25 AM	Ignore jjulson Report Abuse
	ok
spunky4443 All-Star Author Washington Posts:559 Points:339,150 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: 5/21/2008 7:42:17 AM	Ignore spunky4443 Report Abuse
	Screw the Environmentalists, all they do is cause trouble, and by the way, aren't they doing a good job at it!!!!!!!!!
DST43 Champion Author Oklahoma Posts:1,615 Points:285,825 Joined:Jul 2007	Message Posted: 5/21/2008 7:41:05 AM	Ignore DST43 Report Abuse
	they sure are
4warned All-Star Author Michigan Posts:629 Points:501,795 Joined:Nov 2006	Message Posted: 5/21/2008 7:37:46 AM	Ignore 4warned Report Abuse
	Drill for oil, plant a few trees, it will all balance out.
mattnmona Rookie Author Los Angeles Posts:36 Points:44,205 Joined:Apr 2002	Message Posted: 5/21/2008 7:34:05 AM	Ignore mattnmona Report Abuse
	I've seen pictures of the newly designed drill rig set-ups. No deforestation occurs in Canada. In fact it looks park-like.
Dennis783 Champion Author Wisconsin Posts:5,008 Points:1,005,220 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: 5/21/2008 7:32:26 AM	Ignore Dennis783 Report Abuse
	and to consumers
cudatim All-Star Author San Antonio Posts:518 Points:293,270 Joined:Jan 2007	Message Posted: 5/21/2008 7:32:16 AM	Ignore cudatim Report Abuse
	Lets hear it for drilling in ANWR.
BoerneWatch Champion Author San Antonio Posts:5,569 Points:712,410 Joined:Oct 2005	Message Posted: 5/21/2008 7:30:27 AM	Ignore BoerneWatch Report Abuse
	I wonder what kind of mpg you can get out of recycled environmentalists converted into biodiesel?
danthemanvan Champion Author Montgomery Posts:2,520 Points:538,205 Joined:Nov 2006	Message Posted: 5/21/2008 7:24:34 AM	Ignore danthemanvan Report Abuse
	drill, drill, drill
fairchildd All-Star Author Kansas City Posts:653 Points:259,585 Joined:Aug 2007	Message Posted: 5/21/2008 7:23:10 AM	Ignore fairchildd Report Abuse
	you can't please everyone
laddyboy62 All-Star Author Riverside Posts:985 Points:876,610 Joined:Mar 2005	Message Posted: 5/21/2008 7:22:41 AM	Ignore laddyboy62 Report Abuse
	drill...drill...drill
jmuse Veteran Author Long Island Posts:343 Points:74,050 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: 5/21/2008 7:22:20 AM	Ignore jmuse Report Abuse
	I guess all our problems would be solved if we let the Oil companies drill and dig and do whatever they pleased, just so we can drive to 7-11 down the block to pick up a six pack of beer. My apologies to the beer drinkers.
radrunner All-Star Author Toronto Posts:642 Points:947,390 Joined:Apr 2004	Message Posted: 5/21/2008 7:16:51 AM	Ignore radrunner Report Abuse
	if it would only help us in Canada.
EnderNY Champion Author Dallas Posts:1,507 Points:291,955 Joined:Jun 2005	Message Posted: 5/21/2008 7:14:02 AM	Ignore EnderNY Report Abuse
	whatever, I do what I want!!
tomok Champion Author Portland Posts:7,220 Points:601,385 Joined:Aug 2006	Message Posted: 5/21/2008 7:10:48 AM	Ignore tomok Report Abuse
	The oilsands (tarsands) are a mess..... When you have to mine the ground and heat it to get the oil. OMG! Too bad the oil is not deeper in the ground to get the earths heat so it can change to a liquid. Then it would be much easier (and cheaper) to pump it out of the ground.
krmack All-Star Author Illinois Posts:601 Points:93,485 Joined:Apr 2008	Message Posted: 5/21/2008 7:10:00 AM	Ignore krmack Report Abuse
	I've never heard of 'oilsands'. I have heard of Tarzan though. He is the lord of the Apes!
PartyDebbie Sophomore Author Ontario Posts:145 Points:40,490 Joined:Apr 2008	Message Posted: 5/21/2008 7:08:32 AM	Ignore PartyDebbie Report Abuse
	And in order to keep Sun Oil with a significant position in the Athabasca tarsands area, you must keep the prices just out of reach of the everyday consumer.
mmene Sophomore Author Houston Posts:120 Points:36,675 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: 5/21/2008 7:08:28 AM	Ignore mmene Report Abuse
	Can't blindly follow the environmentalists but we equally can't be blind to the destruction of the environment. That is harder to replace than energy.
papa9571 Veteran Author Toledo Posts:376 Points:105,455 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: 5/21/2008 7:02:51 AM	Ignore papa9571 Report Abuse
	you're preaching to the choir chazzer
gasman50 All-Star Author Portland Posts:828 Points:708,300 Joined:Nov 2005	Message Posted: 5/21/2008 6:59:53 AM	Ignore gasman50 Report Abuse
	Amen, Vascojoe
vascojoe All-Star Author Washington Posts:583 Points:816,450 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: 5/21/2008 6:57:30 AM	Ignore vascojoe Report Abuse
	Let the market decide.
madyank Rookie Author Baltimore Posts:53 Points:4,610 Joined:Mar 2008	Message Posted: 5/21/2008 6:55:23 AM	Ignore madyank Report Abuse
	Once more into the breach, here we go! GET OFF the tree hugging, get OFF the tar sands (which takes an ENORMOUS investment, and a HUGE amount of tar sand continuously flowing into the refining machinery), and get OFF the Petroleum Habit! Get ON the Hydrogen Fuel Bandwagon! WHY burn expensive, more and more hard to get petroleum (which WILL run out!), when you can burn the most ABUNDANT ELEMENT in the UNIVERSE - and get AT LEAST as much POWER out of the fuel? And CHEAPER? So you can make some Middle East Oil Shiekh Rich? Or some Wall Street Speculator? Gimme a break. Pa-leeze!! Hydrogen is MORE POWERFUL than Gasoline as a combustion fuel - WHY do you think NASA uses it in the Space Shuttle? I don't see Atlantis riding a column of 87 octane into orbit! She rides LIQUID HYDROGEN, mixing with LIQUID OXYGEN, and burning in a combustion chamber to produce WATER VAPOR - STEAM! YES, she comes off the pad with two solid rocket boosters, but they only burn for 105 seconds, and then they are gone - preferrably without burning through the side of the External tank and blowing up the whole thing! Hydrogen is plentiful in the oceans of the world, in combination with oxygen, readily available through a process known as electrolysis. Stick two electrodes - basically an electric wire - into a tank of water; what boils off is gaseous oxygen and gaseous hydrogen. capture the two gases, liquefy and compress them, and you have fuel and oxidizer. Or fuel and medical O2. Or fuel and whatever ELSE you need Oxygen for. That's the basic process. Ramp up production levels to a true industrial process and you can make a profit from it without gouging Mr. and Mrs. Average American. And STILL pump Petroleum for Petrochemistry, such as fertilizers, pharmaceuticals, and plastics. Polyester fabrics. Et cetera. So NOBODY needs to suffer; even the environment will benefit, because the ONLY exhaust from hydrogen combustion is STEAM - which condenses as - ready for it? - RAIN. Which refills the oceans. Which can be electrolyzed as H2 and O2 for fuels. Oops; are we REALLY recycling? DUH.
Chazzer Champion Author Nevada Posts:7,488 Points:1,613,385 Joined:May 2002	Message Posted: 5/21/2008 6:54:53 AM	Ignore Chazzer Report Abuse
	Yes, not only the tree huggin' bug watchers are the problem ... but also the damn demoncrats in our Congress are just as bad!
phatride92 Champion Author Kansas Posts:3,147 Points:820,725 Joined:Oct 2005	Message Posted: 5/21/2008 6:54:34 AM	Ignore phatride92 Report Abuse
	ok
LukeIN All-Star Author Indianapolis Posts:869 Points:165,735 Joined:Nov 2007	Message Posted: 5/21/2008 6:54:33 AM	Ignore LukeIN Report Abuse
	The oil companies now have the upper hand, since the need for local oil is desperately needed now.
The_WB Champion Author Detroit Posts:3,154 Points:367,850 Joined:Apr 2007	Message Posted: 5/21/2008 6:53:53 AM	Ignore The_WB Report Abuse
	Enough already
Sealer Champion Author Charleston Posts:1,718 Points:188,455 Joined:Jan 2008	Message Posted: 5/21/2008 6:53:43 AM	Ignore Sealer Report Abuse
	Many environmentalists are a foe to civilization.
Arktander Veteran Author Illinois Posts:331 Points:245,900 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: 5/21/2008 6:53:06 AM	Ignore Arktander Report Abuse
	And the battle will only get more hotly contested.
glazarides Veteran Author Akron Posts:306 Points:314,365 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: 5/21/2008 6:52:16 AM	Ignore glazarides Report Abuse
	I hate to have a knee-jerk reaction, but we have to get the prices down somehow, maybe there should be more drilling. While the prices come down, develop alternatives that can phase out oil. Prices are affecting a lot of families adversely.
Brockvillian Veteran Author Ontario Posts:277 Points:245,345 Joined:May 2007	Message Posted: 5/21/2008 6:51:52 AM	Ignore Brockvillian Report Abuse
	We need a MR. FUSION engine.
Bity Veteran Author Wichita Posts:386 Points:45,255 Joined:Jan 2007	Message Posted: 5/21/2008 6:50:39 AM	Ignore Bity Report Abuse
	there's an advocate for almost everything from saving the whales to saving the forests it's all good but everything was created for us to use to survive on earth.
CheapoBob All-Star Author Alabama Posts:870 Points:854,510 Joined:Apr 2005	Message Posted: 5/21/2008 6:50:23 AM	Ignore CheapoBob Report Abuse
	oil companies will win out
AC-302 Champion Author Los Angeles Posts:7,062 Points:1,198,675 Joined:Aug 2004	Message Posted: 5/21/2008 6:48:45 AM	Ignore AC-302 Report Abuse
	The needs of the many outweigh the needs and desires of the few. That said, why can't the two interests work together? Can the oilsands be mined in such a way as to have minimal impact on the land? And isn't the clean sand returned to the patch?
GGAlbo Veteran Author Detroit Posts:482 Points:373,470 Joined:Sep 2006	Message Posted: 5/21/2008 6:48:28 AM	Ignore GGAlbo Report Abuse
	Environmentalists alway was a foe to oil, because of the greenhouse afect.
357revo Champion Author Pittsburgh Posts:5,819 Points:654,040 Joined:Sep 2006	Message Posted: 5/21/2008 6:48:22 AM	Ignore 357revo Report Abuse
	If you consider any "proven reserve" of crude oil, natural gas, coal, or whatever, what you have is an estimate of what is actually available, at a particular time in history. That estimate is based on the recovery methods available at the time of the estimate, using the valuation cost of the resource to determine what recovery methods would be used. ANWR as a resource was first evaluated in 1980, with updates by the USGS in 1998 [prior to President Clinton veto of the Republican Congress passing a bill to allow resource recovery], 2000, and 2002. 1998 Estimates 2000 Estimates 2002 Estimates When these estimates were made, the "economically recoverable reserves" were estimated to increase each time a reassement was made, as the technological advancements in drilling techniques improved, and as the world price of the resource changed. In the last estimate I've linked from the USGS, for 2002, the range of "technically attainable" oil was 5.9 Billion bbl to 13.2 Billion bbl, with an average estimate of 9.3 Billion bbl recoverable, AT THE WORLD PRICE OF $30 PER BARREL. Just what do you think a world price of $130 per bbl does to the economically recoverable amount of oil? It goes up, of course. Finally, the greenies against developing ANWR lie through their teeth about the period of time that the ANWR resource will be in use, and the amount of oil. And the naysayers usually neglect to mention the availability of trillions of cubic feet of natural gas in the reserve. As Mark Twain said so many years ago, "There are lies, damned lies, and statistics". Statement such as "1 foolish 1" made below about ANWR only having 6 Billion bbl and lasting only 600 days are totally BS. Environmentalists Play Slick With Statistics About ANWR And did you ever hear one of these so-called "protectors of the environment" urging the government to do anything about the constant seepage of crude oil out of the ground and seabed in the coastal waters of Alaska? Doesn't that crude damage the wildlife and environment they are so concerned about? Drilling in coastal waters, and withdrawing crude oil from the reserves will relieve the pressure that is forcing that oil out of the ground/seabed, and reduce pollution that has affected the area. To quote from the "2002 Reserves" document link above: " 'Whereas there are large seepages of petroleum along the Arctic Coast of Alaska and conditions favorable to the occurrence of valuable petroleum fields on the Arctic Coast . . .' President Warren G. Harding used those words in 1923 to describe the apparent petroleum potential of a tract of land on the western North Slope of Alaska, when he issued a one-page executive order establishing the 23-million acre (36,000 square miles) Naval Petroleum Reserve No. 4."